Wowy wow. Behold one of the boldest anti-yogevangelist claims yet!
We’ve recently seen public condemning of yoga practice by big bopper Southern Baptist Albert Mohler, who’s convinced that yoga could be breathe its way into replacing Christianity! But holy Jesus ravioli, are we yogadorks actually yoga…demons?
Pastor Mark Driscoll, an indisputable megachurch superstar in Seattle, WA, says that basically anyone who practices yoga is buying a one way ticket on the express train to Hell Station.
At one of his speaking gigs (aka sermons, whathaveyou), Driscoll was asked: “Should Christians stay away from yoga because of its demonic roots?” No fair, loaded question! To which Driscoll replied: “Totally. You sign up for a little yoga class, and you are signing up for a little demon class.” (video is a must see)
So there you have it. Thank goodness yogademons.com isn’t taken yet!
Mind you, this claim is coming from someone who deemed Avatar the most “Satanic film of all time”, who believes that women can not hold leadership roles within the church, and who curses so much in his sermons that they’re too racy for Godtube. Blasphemy!
We think this is total kooktown, but he does have a knack for catchphrases: “Satan doesn’t care if you stretch, as long as you go to hell.” Come to think of it, those demons are rather flexible.
——
Earlier…
long time ago someone told I was going to hell because I teach yoga…nothing new here…
I just see it as just another way this country is going to hell! another version of a Tea Bagger, uh, Tea Partier….
Darling, only the BEST people go to hell. See you there!
So that’s how Linda Blair did that…
I can’t figure out if this angers me or breaks my heart. Little demon class? Really?
So I’m usually just a lurker on the blogs but I have to comment on this one.
Apparently this “Christian” has never read anything written by church doctors such as Theresa of Avila, St. Francis, or John of the Cross. Because they all talk about going within to connect with God as well as experiencing God through nature. And they were all canonized!
Apparently he has never read “The Cloud of Unknowing” which predates his version of “Christianity” by about 500 years.
I love “Christians” who choose to selectively forget the mystic traditions of Christianity that date back to Jesus.
CATHOLIC? Of course a Christian isn’t going to read things that a Catholic wrote. The Bible is the authority on every topic. Catholic writings are not authoritative. Here’s why: “Chief exorcist Father Gabriele Amorth says Devil is in the Vatican”
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/comment/faith/article7056689.ece
BY the way, the anabaptists were ALWAYS outside the Catholic church. Who do you think the catholics were persecuting through the centuries. In the 400’s, they even put Christians to death when they wouldn’t baptize their infants (that’s where the name was coined anabaptists “REBAPTIZERS” would rebaptize those getting saved out of the Catholic church). Catholicism doesn’t predate Christianity – Christianity is following Jesus (that’s the meaning of the term). A few of these churches who fought the corruption: Montanist churches, Novatian churches, The Donatists, the Paulicians, the Albigenses, the Petrobrusian, the Henrician, the Arnoldist, and the Berengarian Churches, The Waldensian Churches…..all BEFORE what you call the Protestant movement. Of course, the Catholic church is doubleminded on these churches. On the one hand, they claim they are HERETIC, YET, on the other hand like to deny any church existed over the centuries but them. The problem is that the Catholic church during their persecution tended to burn all the writings from these churches. These churches were standing up for the truth while mysticism continued to flourish in the Catholic church.
Catholicism IS the original Christian church. It predates Protestant religion, but is Christianity.
http://www.economist.com/node/2350084 says everything you need to know about Mark (or any other evangelical separatist) really. religions have a large incentive to having high social walls, and generally the higher the wall, the better the incentives.
And I speak as one who has been there, done that, and decided that integrity to my experience and vision was more important than the payoff of conformity. Shanti
Hi, funny, too funny, God bless him
Oh and I have to add: Dude has done his homework! “cause he’s right in many ways, just slathering on megajudgement and insane interpretation.
Wow.
Strengthens my childhood intuition that if heaven is where these people go, I don’t want to be there with them.
Viva la yoga!
yawn
Hell? I’ve been there (twice) and it’s true, you can’t get ice water.
And the Hell Pastor Driscooll is referring to is transient, right?
This is infuriating! I really can’t stand pastors who just…well, basically have no idea what they are talking about. I am a Christian who grew up in a strong Christian family (we are talking female pastors here people…looks like we are hell bound for sure!) and a lot of my family practices yoga…Now, in his defense, I thought Avatar was garbage. But Satanic? I think not. I do think this guy needs to get a reality check and see that the things he thinks are so evil are far from it. Maybe he should spend a little more time looking in the mirror…
He’s a great speaker…. very convincing in his tone and calm nature. But his argument is ridiculous. I see this all too often… the only way he is connecting yoga and demon worship is that it is not Christianity. If you are not Christian, you’re going to hell.
“if you’re not Christian, you’re going to hell”.
That’s exactly why I can’t stand them. Most christians i know, believe theirs is the only truth. And basically, anyone who doesn’t believe in it, even if they are good hearted, kind and compassionate people, will go to hell.
FAIL.
Eliana, first of all, there is only ONE truth. Although in America today Relativism is prevalent, it doesn’t change truth. So, the question is ‘What is the truth?’ It’s important for every person to look into this question and be honest with themselves.
Have you ever told a lie? Have you ever stolen anything (even something small)? Have you ever used God’s name as a curse word? God has a different standard of GOOD. This is why people believe themselves to be good when they are not by God’s Standard. And EVERYONE before measuring themselves against God’s law will proclaim their own goodness. The problem is that God will judge the world in righteousness using the 10 commandments as his standard. Can anyone meet that standard? Of course not.
Proverbs 20:6
“Most men will proclaim every one his own goodness: but a faithful man who can find?”
The truth is, when you act like a hateful human being, and want to be around other hateful human beings, the rest of us really don’t care about you, or where you think we are going after death. We’re happy to stick with out own kind (kind, loving, patient, open people) in this life, and in the afterlife.
We don’t want to join you, but if you want to stop the hateful attacks and open your mind, you’re welcome to join us.
Amy, I like you. You tell it how it is, in a nice way. Speaking the the truth in love. We as Christians, need more people like you representing the Christian faith.
John 14:6
New International Version
Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.”
The fact of the matter is,that there can only be one truth. Either Christianity is wrong, and another religion is the truth, or Christianity is the truth and all other religions are wrong. Truth is not a matter of opinion it is based on reality and what actually exists.
For instance, let’s say a person sees a picture of a car for the first time. The picture is taken straight on from the driver side. From the picture, that person might conclude the car only has two wheels. But if that person was talking with someone who had owned a car and explained how cars only have two wheels. It would not make it the truth. No matter how much they argued that in the picture it showed the car only having two wheels, it would never make it true. Because cars were created with four wheels. This is why relativism does not work.
As far as truth is concerned, not everyone can be right. Christianity does boldly assert that it has the truth, which I agree that it does, But it is in way meant to be a condemning statement. Jesus Christ not come to condemn the Earth or the people, but to reconcile it to the Father.
Christians are certainly not perfect because we are human and the church itself is made up of imperfect people.
I am from Seattle and that dude is a nutter and the church is like a weird cult. Fine by me if people like him stay out of the yoga classes!
I used to have a repeated dream of becoming a demon, grew little horns and everything…that yoga could make it come true never occurred to me. And dude, I used to teach yoga in Seattle and lots of people came to my class on a Sunday morning before happily going to church to pray some more. Get a grip and be more Christ-like.
I don’t wanna go to hell, but i do want to perform yoga coz I just love yoga very much.
My goodness. I didn’t realize yoga was actually discussed in the Bible. I’m truly no expert here, but a quick google search of Romans 12 revealed the following: “Ro 12.4: For as we have many members in one body, but all the members do not have the same function, 12:5 so we, being many, are one body in Christ, and individually members of one another.” Wait a stinkin’ minute. According to Brother Mark, “oneness” is paganism, demonism, and any other kind of “ism” that will send us straight to hell. And Jesus isn’t supposed to live in our hearts? I’m soooo confused.
By the way, anyone care to comment on the similarities of the yamas / niyamas and the 10 commandments? anyone….? anyone….?
I answered your 10 commandments question below.
ONENESS refers to Pantheism — Doctrine that identifies God with the whole universe, every particle, tree, table, animal, and person being part of Him. Are you and a table equal? How about you & a tree? Seriously?
In Christianity, we may be members to one body (the church) but we are not the same as particles or the trees or animals and we certainly aren’t part of God (we can become adopted children of God upon believing in his son, Jesus). It’s a completely different concept to have an ALMIGHTY GOD, who is the creator, father, and savior of the world. Not even close to being the same thing as Pantheism.
This is why the yoga & Christianity are incompatible (dark & light).
rubbish…adopted children…you , madam, are totally clueless and amazingly are completely willing to show this. Some one has not doubt spoon fed you the nonsense that you speak from an early age…sad…lost in your own darkness while proclaiming it as light
“You cannot tell by observation when the Kingdom of God comes. There will be no saying, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There it is!’; for, in fact, the Kingdom of God is within you.” Lk 17: 20-21
My hubby says we can all do Hot Yoga when we get there. LMBO!!
Recently I have begun reading Mark Singleton’s book Yoga Body. It traces the origins of asana practice from the East to the Yoga we know in the West. One of the developmental points along the way (from India mind you) was thru the YMCA of India. I had to laugh at this as it certainly throws another light on yoga in America (at least the asana branch of yoga).
I have always prided my self on being a heretic (look up the meaning of the word) so yoga continues this for me!
Thanks for your opinion Mark, but I will continue to regularly practice yoga without any fear that I am opening up my heart to “demons.”
Quite an astounding thing…the only thing demonic(am sure the pastor will agree with me) I can think of the bat, a few weeks of complete Hatha practice (ie asana, pranayama, satkriya, mudra and bandha) can make happen is the guaranteed reset of one sexual abilities to one’s teen years!…but then sir unlike a ‘wild teenager’ Hatha also works on citta nirodha, further firmed up with Raja Yoga. Dare I venture to say that just scratch on the Yogic surface might even make it easier to walk on Christ’s way. Yoga(especially Hatha or Asana as prominent in the West) was after all the foundation for higher spiritual practices…
I have heard of yoga described as many things, but ‘a little demon class’ is new to me. Ha, this perspective is so bizarre to me it’s almost comical, but not quite funny because he actually has followers that buy into this narrow-minded, judgmental hooha. It does break my heart.
(Love the comical nature of the responses here… still laughing over the ‘hot yoga’ comment!)
*sigh*
i grew up in a christian home and my family has been nothing but supportive of me practicing and teaching yoga.
and also–most of the yogis and yoginis i’ve known have been far more like Jesus than most of the christians i’ve known.
Really? From “Five Ways Of Salvation In Hinduism” which are five types of YOGA!!!
http://www.vishalmangalwadi.com/vkmWebSite/files/yoga.pdf
Is the Christian part of yoga…..????
“Yoga is understood as a technique of uniting the human soul with the divine soul.”
or
“We are God; we cannot therefore have broken any divine
moral law. Our central problem therefore is that although we are God, we have somehow forgotten our divinity. Our problem is ignorance. We need to experience, ‘realize’ or perceive our divinity, not repent of anything and seek moral transformation. To say that human beings are not sinners but simply ignorant of their true self, is to imply that the problem lies with consciousness or perception. Salvation lies in attaining
that original state of consciousness that has been lost. If you are God, you cannot expect a god to come and save you. You have to realize your own divinity. . . and yoga is the path by which to experience God consciousness, or your inner, essential divinity.”
What about the serpent power:
“Thousands of people have testified that Muktananda awakened their kundalini (serpent power), but that the method he used was ‘occultic’ (hidden or secret). This secrecy implies demonic power.”
and when it comes to yoga in America, a pro yoga site stated:
“The deep and eternal essence of yoga has been misrepresented and packaged for personal profit by clever people.”
Now, what the Bible says is “Prove all things; hold fast that which is good.” 1 Thessalonians 5:21
Christian to Christian….Have you really PROVED THIS IS GOOD?
Yoga is good because it improves health, mental clarity, emotional stability, and promotes community.
Sounds like proof to me.
the proof-text is “by their fruits shall you know them”. HTH 🙂
Pastor Driscoll is right. He does a great job of laying out the truth on this one.
I don’t understand why the evangelical church is so bent out of shape about yoga but has no comparable ire with the number hungry mouths in America, the rape of women in the Congo, the complete neglect of the lower socioeconomic classes by the middle and upper classes, and the list goes on.
Act like Jesus. Hang out with whores and thieving tax collectors. Give. Serve. Do a little yoga. See if it kills your spirit or wakes it up.
That statement doesn’t even make sense. What do you know of missions in other countries? What do you know about what Christians do for others in this country? Do you think that’s going to make the mainstream media? Do they want to show all the good Christians do? Of course not – that want to minimize the good works of Christians. America is the most giving country on the planet. 75% of the WORLD’S giving coming from the US. I recommend studying this out before you make such statements.
To the person who said. . .”anyone care to comment on the similarities of the yamas / niyamas and the 10 commandments? anyone….? anyone….?” Amen to that. And what about Christian at-one-ment?
I have friends who love this guy, and while he is very charismatic, perhaps he’s as much a personna as Stephen Colbert.
Of course there are similarities….God wrote his law upon the heart of every man. So, when men who are without God live by the law, their conscience bears witness of the law written on their hearts.
Romans 2:14-15:
“For when the Gentiles, which have not the law, do by nature the things contained in the law, these, having not the law, are a law unto themselves: Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another;”
The purpose of the 10 commandments is twofold: 1)bears witness through your conscience of God’s existence and 2)convicts your heart of sin making you realize your true state in contrast to a HOLY GOD!
Artchair, “as much a personna as Stephen Colbert”, yeah!, now I get it, totally!
“Pastor Driscoll is right. He does a great job of laying out the truth on this one.”
then why is “Amy” reading a yoga blog at almost 2 AM? 😀
Well, Linda, I was LOOKING SPECIFICALLY for Mark Driscoll’s comments on yoga…..and this come up in the search with video attached. LOL! First time I’ve ever been to a yoga blog.
“we can all do Hot Yoga when we get there.” lmao
Funniest thing I’ve heard all day. ♥
Unfortunately, I don’t think you’ll have arms & legs to do any yoga in Hell. Mark 9:48 describing hell fire… “Where their worm dieth not, and the fire is not quenched.”
Notice the part – “THEIR WORM”….yeah, I don’t think your body form is going to be as it is now. It’s certainly not going to be funny or entertaining in any way.
As others here are saying, I’d much rather be a tortured worm amongst good-hearted people, then drifting around on clouds with hateful people.
Enjoy your heaven without us. I’ve met wife beaters, child abusers and child molesters, people who laugh when gay people get killed… all convinced they are going to Heaven. Well, they can go. I don’t want to go anywhere, here in life or afterlife, that they are going.
Sonya, don’t let those “wolves” among the sheep convince you not to look into what the Bible actually says. The Bible gives a CLEAR definition of a Christian and says you will know them by their fruit (works). So, if somebody says they are a Christian and does all those things you listed, they are likely a ‘wolf’, not a follower of Jesus Christ.
PLUS, the Bible describes what you call GOOD-HEARTED.
What the Bible says about the heart:
Jeremiah 17:9
“The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?”
What the Bible says about who is good/does good:
Psalm 14:3
“They are all gone aside, they are all together become filthy: there is none that doeth good, no, not one.”
Sonya, we have all failed. It’s what we do with the knowledge of that failure that makes all the difference. No one is good by God’s Standards. Only God is good, which is why he gave us a way to Heaven (Jesus Christ). The problem is that Hell is going to be ABSENT of all good because God won’t be there. It’s not a place where anyone wants to be. The rich man in hell (Luke 16:19-31) gave us some information about hell. He was TORMENTED in this flame. There is a gulf fixed where you cannot pass from Hell to Heaven, and he begged that Abraham would go & tell his 5 brothers so they would not come there. So, people in hell believe in Jesus and wish they had made another choice and wish their families would find the truth before they end up there.
It’s eternity you are talking about so something to take very seriously.
Again, child abusers and wife beaters are not people I want to spend eternity with. And every time I’ve had anything to do with your kind of people – there they are. Always. They beat their children because they went to yoga class. Or beat their children because they did something pagan at a school holiday party.
The fact that you’re SO ENTIRELY SURE that YOGA, a form of communion with the God within, is Satanic pretty much says your understanding of good and bad are utterly skewed, and I’d bet money that Pastor Mark is a violent man against either his children or wife when they disagree with him. Because a man who sees demons in Yoga, is a man who sees demons in EVERYONE who disagrees with him, which justifies his violence and abuse.
Watch out for him.
“You cannot tell by observation when the Kingdom of God comes. There will be no saying, ‘Look, here it is!’ or ‘There it is!’; for, in fact, the Kingdom of God is within you.” Lk 17: 20-21
Amy, I am just wondering what it is about this blog post that has triggered you SO much that you have been running up and down the comments trying to get people to see it your way?
You sound very insecure in your beliefs, and desperate to convince others to agree with you.
It makes me a little sad for you.
Learn to confront the darkness within yourself and you might be a little less inclined to go chasing after its reflection on the internet.
You can’t even come up with an argument that addresses the ACTUAL issue – just a personal attack???
I didn’t read a personal attack, but a loving voice asking about your inner pain that drives you to act in an unloving way.
Really?
Judgments of my character:
1. ‘very insecure in your beliefs, and desperate’
2. ‘darkness within yourself’
3. ‘chasing after its reflection on the internet’
Notice all these things a) have nothing to do with the topic, b)are all about assumptions to assassinate my character without debating any FACTS.
Everything I was addressing in the posts were about what the Bible says about Heaven & Hell, what Hindu’s say about yoga, and how the two are not compatible. Would be nice to stay on topic.
dear… the bible has been translated, compiled, reorganized, parts removed …. by MAN and Organizations to promote their agenda. While it is not without benefit..its essence is Love, Compassion and Selfless service…those three items take a lifetime , in fact many,and complete energy to perfect in oneself. If we all worked tirelessly on those what time would there be for persecution or proselytizing in any form
Sounds like someone hit a nerve!
That’s rich, considering you aren’t actually arguing with any facts yourself. Just a compilation of myths from an outdated, irrelevant desert religion that has been edited, changed, and translated thousands of times to suit the motives of whomever was currently in power and needed to promote their own political agendas.
Frankly, if you were a real Christian you wouldn’t even be able to afford the computer you are using to type your nonsense.
You do in FACT sound very insecure, like a person with deep darkness within themselves. It comes across as strong as a gush of blood or bad smell.
The Bible says absolutely nowhere that going to yoga class will get you sent to Hell, or that yoga classes are taught by demons or let demons come inside you. That is A FACT.
Spot on, Sonya. I would have been
shocked had she reacted with anything but defensive and selective indignation, TBH. I get it, though. I used to be a Christian. It is a great distraction when you can’t bear to face your own soul.
Amy, I believe you are in Hell already.
The scripture is doing as it promises!
Romans 3:19
“Now we know that what things soever the law saith, it saith to them who are under the law: that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.”
Because you cannot argue with the law of God, you just have to attack the messenger.
It’s ok Amy! I know that clear insight can feel like an attack when you don’t want to deal with your own stuff. I am not invested in whether you agree with me or not. I would never dare make assumptions on who you are as a person, but the way you have presented yourself on this thread certainly does make me wonder what is going on under the surface, that’s all. Peace and blessings to you on you journey, sister!
Paul’s writings were his interpretations
Ken, That’s why Paul says “All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:” 2 Timothy 3:16
Many profess this “inspiration”. It is for each one to choose which “inspiration” suits his/her temperament. If that “inspiration is founded in Love, Compassion, Self-less service then its essence is..God. To think that there is only ONE “inspiration” and to judge accordingly…is akin to a small child who thinks the sun belongs to him, alone.
It is all about fundamentalism. His truth (or the literal word of the bible as understood by him) is right, and all other teachings are wrong- and those who do not believe as he does or repent their evil ways are going to hell. Really- like for eternity. There— isn’t that simple (and comforting, if you are the one who knows the truth?).
As opposed to living in a mysterious universe which we embody beyond comprehension but can experience by the grace of whatever Divinity we best learn from.
I vote for the latter and praise all loving gods and people.
Amen
The problem with this logic is your conclusion is based on what??? Your feelings??? You are actually breaking a commandment in that you have made a god in your own image – a god to your liking. It’s not based on any concrete information.
You use the term fundamental in a very negative way, but the definition is “serving as an original or generating source”. Sounds pretty good to me. I guess the proof in scripture is the fulfilled prophecy still being fulfilled today. Israel is God’s timeline. It was predicted 2000 years ago that they would be a central to the whole world. I t was also predicted that all the Jews would go back to their homeland. For 1900 years, this prophecy was laughed at – there was NO Israel and the Jews were scattered worldwide (also predicted before it happened). And look at us today. The Jews have went back to their homeland and it is called Israel and we hear about it daily in the news JUST AS PREDICTED. There is NO other book like this one earth. 2/3 of the Bible are prophecy and every prophecy fulfilled is TO THE LETTER. So, this is why I can put my faith in the Bible.
Please, list these fulfilled prophecies. Also, I’ve read the Bible — 2/3 prophecy? Come on. Sounds like you need to read the book again.
Really? That is one long list (and I mean LONG – hundreds).
At least 10 Bible prophecies were fulfilled after 1948 all pertaining to Israel. People used to use these prophecies as proof the Bible was false because there was NO Israel, yet they are being fulfilled in our lifetime. Just a few….
Zechariah 8:7-8 (written between 520 and 518 BC) prophesied the Jews return to Jerusalem.
Isaiah Isaiah 43:5-6 also foretold of the worldwide return of Jews to Israel (written between 701-681 BC) Fulfilled 1967.
Isaiah 51:3 said Israel’s deserts will become like the Garden of Eden – Being fulfilled now.
Ezekiel 29:15 (written between 593-571 BC) Egypt would never again rule over other nations (fulfilled in 1967) It’s always going to be a weak nation.
Micah 4:1 (written sometime between 750-686 BC) Jerusalem would become the world’s most important religious site (look at the importance of the Temple Mount today).
Nostradamus was a master at prophesy. Maybe followers and a new”religion” is in order.
Actually it is experience that is the basis for my beliefs. My own personal experience, which you would not understand because it is not your experience.
I am happy for you, Amy, to have faith in your bible. Be loving and do good deeds. Trying to destroy other people’s faith is neither loving nor good.
EXACTLY. And telling an entire culture of people that they are going to hell for not believing what you believe is offensive and hateful.
And it’s not true, anyway.
Green,
Cultures standards change over time. The Bible’s standard is, was, & always will be the same.
What facts do you have that prove the Bible is not true?
If you are really interested:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNf-P_5u_Hw&feature=related
You are right about culture changing. It used to be culturally acceptable for Christians to run around torturing and killing anyone who spoke out against them. It was culturally acceptable for that to happen…for centuries.
Funny how yoga is condemned for being demonic, but you never hear about people burning on spires in your local yoga studios. Interesting.
Speaking of changes, Christianity is losing more converts then ever. Churches are becoming panicked over the rapid decline as more and more people start using their (God-Given) reasoning skills and begin to abandon fear-based superstition for logic and open-mindedness.
Zeitgeist movie? Seriously? It has no credibility. It’s just a basely conspiracy theory. If you did your homework on this one, you’d see there is no factual truths in this movie.
“It used to be culturally acceptable for Christians to run around torturing and killing anyone who spoke out against them. ”
Please read my post above about CATHOLICS in my response to Angela. It was the Catholic church who persecuted REAL CHRISTIANS for centuries! There were no Christians killing anyone.
And yes, you are right about the Christian church declining. Another prophecy being fulfilled.
2 Thessalonians 2:3
“Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;”
The day Jesus returns will not come until 1) a falling away (IS CURRENTLY HAPPENING), 2) anti-christ (man of sin, son of perdition) is revealed (hasn’t happened yet).
2 Thessalonians 2 has a great list of things to come including the fact that his man is going to sit in the temple of God claiming himself to be God. If studied throughout all of scripture, he will lead a one-world government and he will be following Satan with all power, signs and lying wonders, and “whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming”.
So, when you talk about the Christian church losing members, I see alot of prophecy happening today (along with Israel). Too many to list, but this is the reason the Bible is so reliable.
I highly doubt you have watched that movie all the way through and given it serious consideration.
The facts that it presents ARE facts, backed up by archaeological evidence considerably older than Christianity.
And yeah, sorry, Catholics are Christians and Christians are Catholics. You worship the same deities and push (mostly) the same doctrines. I have far more respect for any good Catholic worth his / her salt than I do a hysterical Born-Again pushing ignorant, fear-driven, arrogant and condescending crap at my door.
If someone put a gun to my head and told me I had to re-convert to Christianity I’d pick Catholicism in a hot second because they at least are willing to consider that other walks of life might lead to the same God. They think they’ve got the puzzle solved of course, but they also acknowledge that other people have “part of the puzzle pieces.”
Luckily, I get to live in a wonderful place called America where I get to believe whatever I want – and so do you!
So Amy, I celebrate that you get to have your viewpoint and the beliefs you hold dear.
And so do I.
My beliefs don’t require you to believe in them. Yours do, though. I would say that your behavior on this thread has not been ANY kind of incentive for me (or most others) to want to end up in eternity with you, or people who think like you do. I’ll take my chances.
“Actually it is experience that is the basis for my beliefs.”
When it comes to TRUTH, there is only one truth. To base beliefs on experience is much likely believing truth is relative. It’s crazy how relativism is so prevalent today.
Let me ask you, if a person was blind walking towards a cliff and I tried to tell them they were about to go over that cliff, would that be considered “neither loving nor good”? Of course not! The most loving thing a person can do is warn people of the impending danger they face.
amy-
a cliff is a cliff. walking over it leads to certain death. all people’s experience walking over a cliff would be the same. this is objective fact.
religion is based on subjective faith and each person’s individual life experiences. your faith will certainly be different to that of many others. intolerance of other’s faith is destructive, leads to misunderstanding and in many cases war- and gives atheists a justifiable argument on the net-negative effects of religion.
fundamentalism of any sort- where one thinks they have a monopoly on the truth, is destructive.
so amy—breathe in, breath out- feel the divine energy flow through you, watch as the mind grows quiet- and behold with wonder the supreme consciousness and peace embodied in all.
The concept of tolerance is always very funny to me because those who preach tolerance will NOT tolerate any belief that says there is only ONE way. Contradiction? Of course.
In Romans 14, Paul addresses what you call “subjective faith and each person’s individual life experiences”. Christians in general are all at different levels of their faith. Some are new, baby Christians and some are mature, adult Christians with many inbetween. One of the reasons Paul also talks about the scripture as “milk” to some and “meat” to others.
You are right….no one has a monopoly on truth – the TRUTH is the Word of God AND the TRUTH is Jesus which no one has a monopoly on. “For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.” Romans 10:13
“The concept of tolerance is always very funny to me because those who preach tolerance will NOT tolerate any belief that says there is only ONE way. Contradiction? Of course. ”
No, that isn’t a contradiction, and the fact that you see one shows how badly your logical skills have been damaged by whatever Christian cult you’re hanging out with.
Tolerance means seeing many viewpoints at once. So to be tolerant, one must see many viewpoints at once — not just ONE. So it’s a perfectly rational response to complain that only ONE viewpoint is being rammed down my throat when I am seeing more than one viewpoint.
Well, IF your definition of tolerance is correct, then you should be able to see MY viewpoint while also seeing your own. But, that’s what I mean – you cannot tolerate MY viewpoint making you intolerant = CONTRADICTION.
So you instead continue to attack my character without knowing anything about me except that I believe in the Bible.
Your ‘viewpoint’ is right for you. Live it..the shoe fits YOU. This shoe does not fit everyone. I speak not of tolerance, for it bespeaks a sense of superiority, but of acceptance: that the Creator is perfectly capable of managing Creation. That this Creator is Omnipresent, Omniscient and Omnipotent and doesn’t need little helpers to judge/condemn His/Her creation based upon their limited knowledge and understanding.
AMEN Ken!
I really think that if any of the hysterical Born Again actually believed in this crap, they wouldn’t have such a crazy need for the rest of us to buy into it.
The more people buy into it, the more validated and secure they feel.
And of course, the more money the churches get.
All hail the Great Margaret Cho: “These Christian Groups have lost their minds! Even Satanists are saying ‘Wow, you guys are being REALLY mean!’…they’re so busy all the time, I’m like, “Shouldn’t you be preparing for the Rapture? Aren’t you supposed to be LEAVING soon? They have no rights to call themselves to Christian, they have no compassion, no kindness, no charity. I want Jesus to come back and say “THAT’S NOT WHAT I MEANT!”
And Bob, you are right about the cliff “all people’s experience walking over a cliff would be the same” which is exactly why I used that example as the condition we all face! But, this doesn’t make me hateful or uncaring for warning those walking towards it about the impending doom of death – it’s actually quite the opposite!
Romans 6:23
“For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
Amen to that, Bob 🙂
LOL – Bob – I meant: “Breathe in, breath out- feel the divine energy flow through you, watch as the mind grows quiet- and behold with wonder the supreme consciousness and peace embodied in all.”
I’m suddenly whisked back to my college years when I would be attacked by the streetcorner prophet every day as I made my way through the quad to my next class. While I was always so happy for him, that he held so fervently to his beliefs, I couldn’t help but be irritated by his yelling that I was going to hell. How would he know? He doesn’t know me. He has no idea of my beliefs. He has absolutely no idea if perhaps I subscribe to his same beliefs – yet he is quick to tell me that I’m going to burn. What is it about yelling at all the students that makes him the pious one?
Amy – hold true to your beliefs. No one here will tell you what to think. We only ask that as you see us walking through the quad, you stop yelling that we’re going to hell, because you don’t really know us.
amy- my last two words– oy vey!!!
The comments on this post are insane!
Anyways…I’m gonna go worship some demons…
We will be roasting a baby soon if you want to join. And then performing gay marriages after a hot yoga session.
I understand totally where Driscoll is coming from … but it’s not a place that many will understand without revelation. There is a scripture … and many will perish through lack of knowledge … you may not like or understand what this man is saying … but file it and ask God for enlightenment. Just suppose there was some truth in it!!
Mark seems to say believe only Mark’s way because all other doctorines are evil from demons, however convincing they are and however similar they are to what he says. Aside from arguements that without the chance to hear and understand Mark’s message, most people in the world for most of history are therefore damned because of where and when they were born (by a God who created us out of love and is all forgiving), there is a more direct problem with his logic which the threads here are steering towards;
A denial that there’s any truth in the other belief systems around is ridiculous, and either;
1. the result of someone’s (not necessarily Mark’s) ego seeking control/praise/vindication/etc. (i.e. unlikely to be real divine advice), or
2. the result of someone who doesn’t have a strong enough faith to think you could gain something from another docotine and still be saved from the aforementioned demons (i.e. it’s probably not divine advice or there would be faith).
3. it’s exactly what the demons he says you should avoid would tell you (so it might be true but given the number of doctorines to choose from, no more than one of which can be true, it’s probably all lies)
I’ll take my chances with people who show love and compassion and choose my friends on a case by case basis rather than based on which church they choose.
This is my 20th year practicing Yoga and my 33rd year as a Christian. I attended this church, Mars Hill, before I moved to Portland and I usually agree with what Mark D says, so this was very troubling.
My wife reminded me that he is probably not talking about the yoga classes at my gym and the Y. He is likely referring to the yoga centers where hippies chant hymns and meditate. I don’t go to those places. Also at the end of class when everyone else says Namaste, I say “Jesus is God”, and I say it loudly.
I honestly feel absolutely NO conviction that I am in sin during my yoga classes. Yoga (at the gym) is no more spiritually harmful then working at my job.
Practicing meditation or communicating with spirits is definately dangerous and you are foolish if you think it is beneficial. I figure I have eternity once I am dead to talk to spirits so while I am alive I will stick with people.
I like Yoga. I love and worship Jesus.
–Jonathan Marianu
Please delete this post. I noticed a spelling error.
This is my 20th year practicing Yoga and my 33rd year as a Christian. I attended this church, Mars Hill, before I moved to Portland and I usually agree with what Mark D says, so this was very troubling.
My wife reminded me that he is probably not talking about the yoga classes at my gym and the Y. He is likely referring to the yoga centers where hippies chant hymns and meditate. I don’t go to those places. Also at the end of class when everyone else says Namaste, I say “Jesus is God”, and I say it loudly.
I honestly feel absolutely NO conviction that I am in sin during my yoga classes. Yoga (at the gym) is no more spiritually harmful than working at my job.
Practicing meditation or communicating with spirits is definately dangerous and you are foolish if you think it is beneficial. I figure I have eternity once I am dead to talk to spirits so while I am alive I will stick with people.
I like Yoga. I love and worship Jesus.
–Jonathan Marianu
I’m glad Jonathan feels no conviction that he is in sin during his exercise class. There’s no need to be if his intention is pure and he does seem like an honest hearted guy. Of course if there are any Muslims or atheists in the class there’s no reason for them to feel they are sinning either if their intention is also pure.
I do find it patronising, given the millions of committed yoga practitioners over several hundreds of years, that Jonathan’s comment appears to say “I’ve tried a yoga class and as a Christian obviously my assertion that it *seems* ok carries enough weight that it’s worth adding here.” Perhaps I can add that as someone who’s devoted to yoga practices, I’ve tried Christianity and I think if you take out the obviously silly bits and ignore any Christian who tells you non-Christians can’t go to heaven, the rest seem like quite a normal bunch of people.
Also, I find the idea of loudly saying ‘Jesus is God’ when everyone else says ‘Namaste’ a little strange. I assume he doesn’t know what Namaste means and is somehow afraid of it? I wouldn’t attend a Christian service and loudly say ‘Om shantih, shantih, shantih’ when everyone else says ‘Amen’. That’s just rude!
My advice to Jonathan would be to have a really good think about why you go to yoga. Are you open minded enough to believe in all of what you’re doing there or are you frightened of closed minded comments like those in this article? Your yoga teacher is probably one of those ‘hippies’ who chants or meditates and if you can’t get past that you’ll never be true to yourself in a yoga class however much they try to help you.
there’s nothing wrong with what mark driscol is saying because if you are indeed a Christian he is only speaking the truth that a practice influnced and based on the Hindu religion is based on a religion with a different god than ours. We know there’s only one god, one son and one spirit, one way, one truth, one hell one heaven (from a Christian standpoint, which I believe is true as well) Are we to abandon the truth for the sake as something so simple and silly as yoga? you hear demonic and immediately everyone thinks this mans crazy but look at the facts from the Christian point of view, yes yoga is yoga but the very fact it originated and is rooted in a separate religion with a separate god teaching a separate way and life by very definition of this conflict the Hindu god is demonic because we know the fallen angel who was cast from heaven to dwell on earth denied god, challenges god, Is the father of deception and the enemy of gods
children. All religions apart from Christianity are demonically influenced it’s a simple Christian truth, controversial yes but I will not sugar coat the very basis of my faith. are you guys judging him because he’s warning the people that they may be allowing a way to separate themselves from god & become influenced by our enemy? If a Christian pussy foots on the truth that’s when our own religion becomes corrupted. is he preaching this to a yoga class mixed in with people of all religions? hes preaching a message to his people, in his church, in his religion. if your a Christian and you pussy foot on the truth that our god is one god, he had one son he wrote one book then don’t be all offended because you like yoga, honestly, what is yoga rooted in? if you don’t believe that saten exists, demons arnt real, he is the FATHER of deception than you’ve already been deceived by him and I’m sure your shaking your head thinking I’m crazy but if you don’t open your eyes to the world and see all it’s snares do you think your being smart? why would you condone something rooted in a conflicting religion in which god says time and time agian that these religions and it’s practices are an abomination to him. It tricks people into thinking this belief is the truth, why would you dapple in works of a demonic practice? seriously, is that crazy or is it true? I’m speaking to Christians right now. People who are Christians, these are simple deceptions which you blind yourself to because of the world, because yoga is just yoga. it doesn’t help you to disregard things seen as simple and harmless rooted in a religion denying our true god, inspired by demons. I just see the irony of all this because it’s the perfect trap, why suspect something so innocent? if it conflicts with our god his word and his son then why take the risk why dapple in the Enemys works. this world has put a spin on everything, why not hold fast to the truth?
What a sad message this was from ‘happyday’. So ironic too, given that you purport to be writing in the name of Jesus.
The message basically says that everything that’s not a Christian invention is evil and everyone who isn’t Christian is evil. What a hateful view of the world! If you really believe that, you must be living your life acting out of fear rather than compassion – and just like love, fear is contagious. It sounds like you’ve been talking to the guy you refer to as “the father of deception” and you’re inadvertently giving him a helping hand.
The kind of belief you’re describing is based on the fear corrupt leaders instil to keep control over their followers. It leads to the awful acts carried out by ‘religious’ groups such as those in the Middle East, in Northern Ireland during the 20th century, throughout the medieval crusades and so on.
‘Religious’ groups who groom murderers and suicide bombers do so buy first convincing followers of the same views you already hold – that everyone else is evil and only their way is true. It’s that obvious lie that puts so many people off religion completely. You’re already at the stage where you facilitate the spread of ignorance and hatred rather than compassion to others, even if unwittingly. I would seriously re-consider the aspects of your faith which label large groups of people as ‘evil’. Your fear of the Devil might be the key to you doing his bidding.
Before Judaism and Christianity spread to Europe, Europe was actually Hindu. How ?
Centuries before Christ, Alexander the Greek arrogantly invaded India in order to conquer India – only to himself be humbled and won over by the wisdom and beauty of the Hinduism and Buddhism of India.
Alexander’s generals and nobles embraced Hinduism and Buddhism, and took these Eastern Philosophies with them back to Europe ( Alexander passed away during the Greeks’ retreat from India to Europe ).
So, Hitler was not altogether wrong, when he tried to trace the Hindu lineage and link of the Germans !
So, it is not odd for the White Man to feel some ancient stirrings in his soul, and some measure of kinship, whenever he comes in contact with Hinduism.
Well, as a Christian who believes in Jesus Christ, and someone who practices Bikram yoga EVERDAY. I have to say that Pastor Driscoll is abosolutly incorrect. If we as a religion want to dissect yoga into being a paganistic ritual that channels demons, then we have to go about dissecting everything in American law and society today. Most of our founding fathers were Masons, and the laws that we have today are from Anceint Greece which worshipped many gods and goddesses! So Pastor Driscoll would have to be like a hermit, relocate to a cave somewhere in Israel, to truly get away from anything paganistic. Plus hes fat, sin of gluttony, he proabably steals money from the church…etc…plus he seems a little egotistic. So yeah, if hes gonna judge yoga and not do any research on everything else, then forget it. Hypocrite Christians are the worst…we all fall short in the eyes of GOD. Period.
Ginger, did you know that JC was himself a Hindu ?
The missing year’s of JC’s youth, that the Bible won’t talk about :
that’s when JC was in India, seeking the Truth and imbibing the ancient Wisdom of Hinduism from the learned sages of ancient India. Whilst in India, JC found the Truth, and became a self-realized soul (a Rishi). This great self-realized Guru JC then returned to the Middle East to preach to his people the ancient wisdom of Hinduism that he had learned in India.
JC said : As you sow, so shall you reap —> This is essentially the Hindu concept of Karma.
JC said : Let him cast the first stone, who is without sin —> This is JC’s reiteration of the Hindu concept of Birth, Life, Death and Rebirth of every soul, until the soul becomes a self-realized soul and is liberated from the cycle of birth, life, death and re-birth (Moksha). In other words, every single mortal on the earth is present on the earth, only because he is still not totally without sin. Had a soul been without sin, he would have attained liberation from the cycle of life and death, and would not be present on this earth.
There is enough evidence to suggest that JC was a vegetarian, keenly aware of the Hindu concept of Ahimsa (non-violence) towards all living creatures.
After JC’s passing, the Unholy Roman Empire seized upon Christianity as a potent tool for spreading the boundaries of the Roman Empire. The Roman Empire accordingly asked its Marketing Department, the Vatican, to suitably modify the Bible, and to disingenuously attribute this modified Version of the Bible to JC himself. Thus, the Vaticanized-version of the Bible has JC making such narrow-minded statements like “Ye shall attain Heaven ONLY through me”. Of course, JC never said that, for, being a self-realized soul, he was keenly aware that there are many different ways for the soul to become self-realized.
Interesting information, but in order to accept that, you have to provide proof of some sort. Where are your references to that information?
At this point in my journey of life, I accept that I do not understand or know anything totally. In fact, I thank God that I am ignorant to most knowledge. Just pray, that God finds it in his heart to welcome us closer to him.
Here is one link.
And there are quite a few books written by Euoropean scholars. Just google it!
http://www.jesus-in-india-the-movie.com/
Sivadas,
Thank you for your comment. I have considered what you wrote.
You are correct in summarizing my entry as saying, “I presume my assertions are valid and relevant to the topic and are worth adding here.”
Anyone commenting makes the same presumption.
The root question is whether Christianity and Yoga are compatible.
Based on my experience the two are incompatible because, as philosophies and life practices, they lead their follower to a different destination and follow a different course.
The discussion should center around the issue of compatability and not on the merits of each philosophy.
When I originally posted, I explained that I am a Christian, mature in the faith, 33 years, yet I have also practiced yoga for 20 years. I am able to reconcile this because I only view yoga as an exercise class at the gym, just as I view Pilates.
Sivadas,
You mentioned fear twice. No one who knows me would characterize me as a fearful person and I am not. But I am very cautious about offending God and communicating or opening myself up to spirits because I view this as dangerous.
During the salutations I do find it offensive to say Nameste because of the implication that we are each a god.
This is why I say, “Jesus is God” which reflects my belief.
If you went to a Christian church and said Shantih or Peace instead of Amen that would be fine. I see no incongruence there.
But if you were to say Nameste or “Jesus is NOT God” that would be disrespectful just as it would be if I went to a Hindu, Jewish, or Muslim place of worship and said “Jesus is God”.
If you view a yoga studio as a place of worship for something other than Jesus then I can see how what I said would be offensive. That is why I do not go to yoga studios.
However I do take yoga at the gym and I do say Jesus is God. In this way I find yoga, as an exercise, compatible with living a strong live devoted to Jesus Christ as my Lord.
Jonathan,
JC himself appears to have been a practising Hindu. Read my earlier posting on this tread.
yoga is for niggaz
An intriguing discussion is definitely worth comment.
I believe that you should publish more on this subject, it may
not be a taboo matter but generally people do not talk about these
topics. To the next! All the best!!
Goal is one, paths are many. One day this man will have to answer to his own god for sidetracking people already on the path with his fear. It’s very sad, and I hope he comes around to see the beauty in diversity. Watch any teaching from Paramahamsa Prajnanananda or Swami Chetanananda, and tell me honestly that they don’t sound like what you’d expect Christ to sound like. Then compare with this drivel. I’m sorry Robert, but you’re alienating more than half of your human family from your teachings because of your wacky beliefs, and my Jesus has room to love all of us. I wish your Jesus did… I’ll bet the real Jesus wishes this too. 🙁
People like this make me want to do yoga poses with “Satanic” imagery all around me. I have had lots of deity statues from Ganesha, Cernunos, Buddha, Shiva, and Baphomet, the only one I have left (as I am an Atheist and reject religion) is a statue of Baphomet. Sometimes I do Zazen in front of a statue of Baphomet wearing the Sigil of Baphomet (inverted pentagram) on a chain around my neck. Imagery like that has been part of various left hand path philosophies (and maybe even some right hand path philosophies though not many) not just in the east but also the west. It would be no different than using a statue of Shiva or Kali. Considering what Baphomet traditionally represented-duality of male and female, light and dark, up and down, as so above as so below, focusing on ones inner godhood/Buddha nature/black flame, the same could be said for doing Zazen in front of an image of the Yin Yang. People like him would say that all of these terrible things will happen if not only doing Yoga/meditation/lucid dreaming/etc but doing them using “satanic” imagery will basically cause the sky to fall on ones head IN THIS LIFE, I accept that as a challenge. Similar to intentionally crossing the path of a black cat, playing around with an open umbrella indoors, breaking a mirror and stomping on the shards with boots on (and away from anywhere an animal or small child could mess with them, of course cleaning up the mess after the fact), or sitting under an open ladder. All for the sake of disproving superstition. I love when I prove their threats are empty…brings a wonderful “spiritual” awakening and peace. Seeing that they might as well be compulsive liars, very eye opening. Jury will be out on the afterlife until I die (if there is one). If people like this guy can’t even get simple and EASILY DISPROVABLE claims correct on things pertaining to THIS LIFE, what likelihood do they know anything about an afterlife that NO ONE knows for certain anything about? I was a Nichiren Buddhist for about 6 years, and I heard threat after threat after threat pertaining to chanting, slandering the Law (IE: Nicheren’s take on the Lotus Sutra), defacing the Gohonzon, so on and so forth. Basically chant a mantra aside from Nam-myoho-renge-kyo and you will fall into the Avichi Hell in THIS LIFE. So write my own mantra and what do you know, it is MORE effective, threats were empty. Burn my Gohonzon, nothing bad happened. Same with this Marc Driscoll and people like him…empty threats if a person practices blasphemy over and over again…
If you do yoga… Well, I don’t know what will happen